The Flash- Why It Failed- Episode 274- TRANSCRIPT

Transcript

0:00:00 – Brian
So this is a review from the raps and Bertot Gonzalez. He called it the greatest DC movie of all time. Here is his review. Believe the hype, christopher Nolan movies aside, the flash is the greatest DC movie over the last 30 years. That belongs in some conversation as Superman 78 and Batman 89. The movie breaks incredible new ground in superhero cinema and honors DC lore of years past. No, welcome to the cinema psycho show, the madhouse for film freaks and film fans of all types. I’m your host, Brian Cottington, co-host and filmmaker John Wooliscroft and the box office was gone in a flash.

Oh, i was wondering how you were gonna come up with an ism, because I think that’s what those are. Those are John isms. Yeah, you know, every episode you end up coming out with one like like that. And this one, yeah, that’s pretty, pretty accurate. I think the DC you in DC, you gone up in a flash is more accurate. Yeah, david Zaslaw’s career gone up in a flash, tainting James Gunn’s tenure gone up in a flash.

0:01:41 – John
Wait, wait, asher did what, Oh no, oh crap. Wait, wait what He. They did what, oh no.

0:01:50 – Brian
I gotta tell you, John, I’ve been salivating at the chance to talk to you about this particular movie since I saw it last week, last Monday.

0:02:03 – John
Oh, i remember I had already seen it when we recorded our stepfather episode and you were like asking like something about the ending and I was like, and we will wait to get that. But I’m like just watch the movie.

0:02:13 – Brian
Yeah, No, I’m glad you did, because I had a reaction. I was just like are you fucking kidding me, Mother fucking kidding me? But yeah, no, we’re on to episode 274 and this week we are talking the flash, and I would love to say that this is our last time that we will ever talk about the DC EU and its failures. but it’s Warner Brothers. you know they’re going to fuck themselves in the end.

0:02:38 – John
Well, there’s still like Buttbeetle and Aquaman too.

0:02:44 – Brian
I wrote an article that they had spent all together. when you combine Shazam, the flash Blue Beetle and Aquaman to Electric Boogaloo, something to the realm of $1.9 billion when it comes to production and marketing, and I just I keep going like that’s, that’s insane, especially for movies that aren’t going to see any return on investment ever.

0:03:16 – John
Yeah, for this episode. Do we want to just? can I just start by saying this movie is a complete and total lie from James Bond.

0:03:24 – Brian
Well, first of all, i don’t. I don’t think and this is important to bring up One. We are going to try really hard to get our pronouns right. When it comes to Ezra Miller, okay, yes, we, we are are very much cisgender men and we’re old, we’re old and we will try really hard, okay, and I will honestly try really hard to edit all of this, okay. So I’m just pointing that right out.

0:03:53 – John
That and what Brian is saying is if we goof and accidentally, please don’t cancel us. He, yeah, it is not purposeful. We are not completely respectful of that, but it’s just when we’re talking, sometimes it’s just the wrong pronoun comes out and we don’t we. We mean no offense.

0:04:10 – Brian
We mean no offense, even though I personally think that Ezra Miller should be in jail for their crimes, You know, like choking people and grooming and breaking and entering and robbery, all sorts of fun stuff.

0:04:29 – John
You know how many crimes did they commit, like there, i think?

0:04:33 – Brian
I think once you get to like two or three, it becomes a spree, and that’s what I would describe it as, as Ezra Miller’s crime spree.

0:04:42 – John
And you know, the last thing I will ever do is have empathy for some billionaire executive at Warner Brothers. Yeah, and I see them wearing the same outfit for like nine days in a row, having showered with a bottle like Pepto Bismol, like what happened now. Oh God, what do you mean, ezra?

0:05:01 – Brian
Miller. What do you mean? Ezra Miller got a fight at a karaoke bar. What do you mean? he choked a fan. What do you mean? he broke into a house to steal liquor, like. What do you mean? he groomed a 14 year old. Yeah, the grooming the 14 year old thing is an allegation. I will say that. Okay, the parents of that Allegedly Allegedly.

0:05:24 – John
Allegedly, or get that a jail free card Allegedly, allegedly.

0:05:28 – Brian
Okay, and we’re not going to spend all the time talking about that, because the real crime is on the screen.

0:05:34 – John
Yeah, oh, brian, i’m so confused with this movie because it’s part of me thought it was, it was fun, the turn my brain off. Part The logic, part of me thinks that there’s a thousand things wrong with this movie. But then I’m also blinded by Michael Keaton being like my everything. Yeah, not just as Batman, but as human beings go And Pittsburgh hero Yeah.

Pittsburgh, born and raised baby. So I’m like, how much am I blinded by just seeing Michael Keaton’s Batman again? I don’t. I don’t honestly know how I feel about this movie, because it’s 10 out of 10, keats, oh yeah. But like in terms of the rest of the movie, i’m like okay, john, you were entertained, but it’s stupid and it’s riddled with plot holes. And how do I properly judge this movie with Ezra Miller in consideration? Do I? do I judge the art and not the artist, who is not only in every frame, but they are sometimes in three times in the one scene?

Yeah, Yeah, that’s difficult to watch a movie with a, with a maniac in it.

0:06:50 – Brian
It is very difficult And it didn’t have to be this way, like I had talked to. I think I talked to you about this and I had said that something, something effective, like when Kevin Spacey’s allegations had come to light. what happened? They replaced him in the movie All the Money in the World.

0:07:12 – John
Well, but they did Well. I’m going to fight you on that one, though, because the thing is, kevin Spacey was in that movie, for you know, maybe 15 minutes total, that is an easy enough handful of reshoots.

0:07:27 – Brian
Okay.

0:07:27 – John
Ezra Miller is in every single scene of this movie sometimes three times.

0:07:32 – Brian
Okay, okay, here’s my retort to that. This movie took 10 years to make. Here’s the funny thing Ezra Miller was announced to be the Flash when the first season of the Flash series premiered. Yeah, it was 10 years ago. It has taken 10 years to make this movie, okay. So in that time that’s gone through a bunch of different directors, a bunch of different writers, eventually ended up with Andy Machete, or is that way? I butchered his name. Sorry, you made it. You made an okay movie, but either way, like yeah.

Mushietti. Okay, in all that time and all that money spent, you’re telling me that when you’ve got a movie about Barry Allen and your main character, they are the person who’s front and center in this film And you’re going to think that, despite all of the behind the scenes bullshit, all of the offscreen stuff, that that’s okay, that we can just put the movie out and people won’t care. I’m sorry, if I’m an executive at Warner Brothers, i’m going to go. This is not a good play. This is going to fail. And what happened? It failed. I think that Ezra Miller is the only reason why this movie failed. I think they’re a big part of it, a massive big part of it, because, john, as you said, like you’re watching this movie and you see Ezra Miller on screen and you’re just going like, well, they’re there, when’s Batman going to show up again? Because I really do not find them to be tasteful to watch, do we?

0:09:35 – John
want to, yeah, do we want to just like jump right out the gate on why we think this movie failed? Well, i think the whole episode honestly is about that, john.

0:09:45 – Brian
I think that that’s. That’s the main thing. Well, before we get into why this movie failed, i do want to pull up some amazing Oh these are. These are glorious, glorious reviews from people. They’re trying to sell us a bill of goods.

0:09:59 – John
Okay, are you saying that Warner Brothers paid off these people to say things about the movie?

0:10:04 – Brian
I don’t know. I’m saying that these people were were either paid or drinking some kind of Kool-Aid.

0:10:15 – John
Yacko, wacko and Dot give it two thumbs up.

0:10:17 – Brian
Yeah, yeah. So I’ll call these people out and that’s fine. if they want to hate my guts, i don’t care. So this is a review from the raps Umberto Gonzalez. He called it the greatest DC movie of all time. Here is his review. Believe the hype, christopher Nolan movies aside, the flash is the greatest DC movie over the last 30 years that belongs in some conversation as Superman 78 and Batman 89. The movie breaks incredible new ground in superhero cinema and honors DC lore of years past. No, What?

0:10:57 – John
what ground did it break? at best, this is just a prototypical superhero movie. Yes, this isn’t real. This is. This is a more fun version of Black Adam You know what?

0:11:11 – Brian
I had more fun watching Shazam. Yeah, fury of the Gods, i did. I seriously I went. It was a good Sunday afternoon. You know I have any emotional investment in any of the characters, but that’s what this movie is. It’s a goofy fucking movie. But the problem is we were sold. This was the Avengers, and that’s what this asshole is saying. Okay, yeah, i got another one. I got another one for you. Okay. So this is from Fan Eric Davis. Dc’s The Flash is tremendous. Forget DC. It’s, without a doubt, among the best superhero films ever made an all timer inventive storytelling, fantastic action sequences, great cast, so many nerdy details. I’m in tears at the end Everything you want from a superhero film and more. I’m in tears at the end because I sat through two and a half hours of bullshit. Yeah, yeah, i didn’t say what. I added that last bit. Yeah, they didn’t say that.

0:12:19 – John
And you got to wonder are these people just paid off or are today? because there is a big difference between going to some premier is say, is that one of the comic con, like San Diego comic con, and see in the movie with rabid people that are there for it And they’re all wearing flash and Batman t-shirts and they’re all whooping and hollering at the right moments. like that can kind of confuse your senses a little bit, compared to if you see this movie in your hometown at like two thirty on a rainy Wednesday.

0:12:52 – Brian
Now I’m glad you bring up about whether people are paid off or not, because I can see that with the reviewers, or it could be something to the effect of like they gave this movie a glowing review because they don’t want to lose access to movies in the future. But this next one, this next one, i still scratch my head about why they decided to stick their nose in the shithole. Ok, this is from Stephen King, well. Author.

0:13:29 – John
Oh well, stephen King has a history of having bad things.

0:13:33 – Brian
Here’s his tweet about the flash. I got an advanced screen of the flash today. as a rule, i don’t care a lot for superhero movies, but this one is special. It’s heartfelt, funny and eye popping. I loved it. Come on, stephen.

0:13:54 – John
Really Well he went. you know what? I only have like two billion dollars. I could really use a hundred thousand dollars from Warner Brothers. I guess.

0:14:04 – Brian
So I guess that might have been it. or maybe, like you know, he’s trying to pitch some new movie, you know, and Warner Brothers, like you, can get your movie deal if you give us good tweet.

0:14:16 – John
Well, i watch a lot of people on YouTube and there is a guy named his YouTube handles, v Infuso, and I mean he’s he’s being pretty humble when he said, like you know, like I’m, i got an advanced copy of this and I’m not famous, i’m not even YouTube famous, but he’s like I, it’s just Warner Brothers trying to give this movie to everyone and anyone that may get some good, you know, word of mouth about it. And he’s like I think they wanted me to say it’s the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. Because I was so charmed by the fact that I got a copy of this movie with a watermark in the mail like whoa, i’m important. Warner Brothers like loves me, i’m a big mover and shaker, and I think that they do that quite a bit. Where it’s, people almost feel obligated to say good things about the movie because Warner Brothers specifically sent you a copy of the movie, probably with a little swag bag to this last one.

0:15:09 – Brian
Here is one that part of me understands why they said this because their job. But the other other part of me is going like you just cut off part of your soul. And this is from James Gunn. Who is James Gunn, might you ask? oh, he’s just the new head of DC, the DC films. It’s a pedophile, yeah, yeah, he’s not yeah, it’s our.

0:15:39 – John
If anybody’s like, what the hell’s John talking about? he had a bunch of old tweets made show Republicans.

0:15:43 – Brian
Yeah, tried to cancel him over personally I actually like James Gunn a lot like I. I dick him because he’s a B movie maker first, okay, well and even in.

0:15:52 – John
You know comic book movies like you know everybody. You might know him as the Guardians of the Galaxy guy and those are the better Marvel movies and even like the Suicide Squad, not Suicide Squad, the Suicide Squad which I like a lot.

0:16:08 – Brian
Yeah, i did too, but hit. This is what made me like go like, alright, buddy, you’re under corporate control. Now, he said, one of the best superhero movies he’s ever seen oh, but I mean, those are his bosses.

0:16:26 – John
I mean, what do you? what do you want him to say?

0:16:28 – Brian
don’t go see this piece of crap no, well, here’s the thing James Gunn inherited this film. He didn’t. We wasn’t there for its inception, he wasn’t there for any of this stuff. So part of me understands why he is saying that. Because, yeah, as you said, his bosses saying like you have to say it’s a good movie, that it’s the greatest thing.

0:16:46 – John
Because I’m just thinking James Gunn would know where in his mind who’s made like the Suicide Squad peacemaker Guardians of Galaxy think that this, this right here, is the best superhero movie he’s ever seen well, i had mentioned at the top of the episode that he lied as well, and when I say that he lied, it’s because he said that this movie would reset the DCEU, which is absolutely not true. You don’t think it will. No, they’re everything that they did with this movie. They’re scrapping it.

0:17:21 – Brian
I’ve read that like oh yeah, well, i think that’s what he means by reset, like, like it’s not. I think you were thinking it was gonna like we were gonna find out who the next Batman was, um, and then super hand, because no, i never thought that well, i think that like say, let’s go to Marvel and Spider-Man, no way home.

0:17:39 – John
I feel that movie legitimately reset Spider-Man and now he’s kind of more the Spider-Man that we know from the comics, like he’s unknown. He doesn’t have a billionaire like Addis Beck and Collie has this like original suit without all the cool like Star things. Like that movie did reset Spider-Man, this didn’t reset anything. They’re just. It’s just one of a few handful of movies that are just floating out there until they just scrap everything and go from from the ground up again.

0:18:08 – Brian
Well, that’s been the biggest problem with with the DC films honestly is is they’ve tried so hard to copy Marvel and they’ve just been aimless. That, like you have. You have a lot of people who are like, oh well, the Snyder verse and don’t get me wrong, like I respect what Zack Snyder tried to do, although I don’t really care for his version of Batman, i do like his version of Superman. But you know that that whole thing was you really didn’t have any sort of cohesive line through it up until you saw Zack Snyder’s Justice League. You know what I mean.

Yeah, that was the only time. That’s the 11th hour that you’re finally getting some cohesive line through it and like, don’t get me wrong, i think it’d be great to see you know um, dark side and actually have like an Avengers level thing. That would be great. But at the same time, like there’s too much bad history with that whole scenario to go forward And unfortunately, you know Gunn saying he’s going to scrap everything makes it where people really aren’t going to want to go out and see the next DC EU film if they know like the stakes really don’t fucking matter. Yes, right.

0:19:33 – John
Well, i so right. Here’s my biggest reason that I think this movie absolutely collapse. It’s twofold, and both of these things actually don’t have anything to do with Ezra Miller. Ok, i think one I I agree with you.

I didn’t like any of the Zack Snyder movies, but I liked that they brought somebody in that wanted to do his own vision and didn’t just copy the Marvel template. Yeah, you know, in a sense of like their light were dark. But can you really tell me that Batman v Superman and Shazam to are in the same universe? No, it’s. It’s like Batman and Robin and Batman 89. Like those are supposed to technically be the same universe. But fuck, if they are.

And I think that people are just like I don’t. You know, they have been shown so many different tonalities in the DC EU that I think that they just got fatigued and bored with it. But then, on top of that, the the other part of this is, i think that, even if they don’t know all the ins and outs on what’s going over DC and Warner Brothers and HBO and all that, they know that like none of this is really going to matter soon. They’re just going to restart everything. So why would I go see the flash, it doesn’t matter. Why would I go see Blue Beetle? It’s not going to matter.

This movie, this flash movie, had to put an end credit sequence to tell people don’t worry, Jason Momoa is still Aquaman, because you like him, you know like he, so go see Aquaman too, because it’s still kind of sort of maybe counts, you know, yeah. So I think I think those two things are really what just killed this movie. It’s like why should I care? Because of you guys are just all over the place in terms of tonality and everything. But also I, you know, i know that there’s stuff going on backstage, even if I don’t know all the ins and outs, and you know this is all pointless in the end anyways, i mean, i agree, i think that’s a good point.

0:21:30 – Brian
I mean I agree that I think they totally shot themselves in the foot by announcing that they’re scrapping everything. They announced that thing in what was it like January, february?

0:21:42 – John
Yeah.

0:21:42 – Brian
Yeah, so. So at the start of these movies being released, you have James Gunn who comes out and says Hey, guess what, don’t worry, we’re scrapping everything and starting fresh. But You’ve just ruined any chance of box office sales with that Because, as you said, no one’s going to care. No one’s going to care, They’re going to be like I don’t give a shit. You know Well, james.

0:22:05 – John
Gunn, i’m sorry. Yeah, james Gunn even had to come out and say, like Blue Beatles, technically, technically, the first Marvel Marvel. DC character You know in this universe it’s. it’s not what he considers to be the first movie. He’s going to like Superman, whatever.

0:22:23 – Brian
It’s Superman like I don’t know new Superman, whatever.

0:22:27 – John
But they probably took a look at the movie and said, ok, we didn’t. You know, there’s no Henry Cavill cameo, there’s no Gal Gadot cameo. So it’s like we can pass this off as its own standalone movie with a couple of reshoots, and it’s not the first movie we want with the franchise. But we kind of have to say it is because otherwise it would have been slaughtered at the box office. Yeah, is why go see a movie that means nothing.

0:22:53 – Brian
Do you think they anticipated that this thing was going to be terrible?

0:22:58 – John
The, what, the flash, yeah, i, i think that they were putting all their cards in this being a huge success You really think so.

0:23:07 – Brian
Despite, despite everything you just said, with the whole Ezra Miller stuff and on top of that them shoot themselves in the foot saying that another stuff matters you think they still thought this is going to be our silver bullet financially?

0:23:21 – John
Well, ezra’s been crazy for for quite a few years here, but it was not as bad Like when I when I first heard Michael Keaton is absolutely coming back as Batman. I think Ezra had done only like 20 of his 300 crimes, so it wasn’t as bad you know that’s an exaggeration.

0:23:42 – Brian
We’re not saying that they have done that, That’s humor Yeah. I’m just, i’m using humor to cope.

0:23:49 – John
But I think that it just got. It got worse and worse and worse. I think, like when they had the movie in the can you know, and before editing they they probably thought, yeah, this one’s going to be huge. People love the character of the flash and it’s got like all these references to other movies and Michael Keaton’s in it Whoa, you know. And so I think they really thought, oh, this is going to be huge. But then, you know, all the dominoes fell and it was oh no, oh no. And there’s a huge problem when you can’t have the star of your movie promote the movie. That is a major issue there. That’s like Jim Carrey not promoting Cable Guy, like, hey, matthew Broderick, do it all by yourself.

0:24:30 – Brian
I even saw that it was news that they showed up to the premiere. They, yeah, like that. That was the news. Oh my God, did you see? Ezra Miller showed up to the premiere of the flash. You know, it’s their movie that they’re showing up to. Yeah, it’s that, that’s the news. That’s not good. I don’t care what anyone says, because it’s always as old adage that there’s no such thing as bad press. No, i’m sorry When your main actor has that much baggage on them. There’s no amount of old adage of oh, it’s no, it’s not as bad press, it’s all good, i’m sorry, because people are going to just turn off, they’re just going to be like I’m not going, i’m not doing it, i’m not going to spend my money. And let me tell you something, john. Like when I went to the theater, i was surprised how empty it was.

0:25:21 – John
I had a decent. I had a decent house. Far from a sellout by any stretch, but there was maybe. This was maybe a couple of days after.

0:25:27 – Brian
So we had gone on last Monday and the film had come out on Friday, so I was totally expecting there to still be people because, you know one, it was, it was a holiday weekend. So I’m like, oh yeah, people will go to go to see the flash And honestly, it was sparse, you know, and, and I mean I think the other thing too and when I was, i think the other thing too, and we’re not really talking about this factor is that movies are expensive to see.

0:25:55 – John
Yeah.

0:25:56 – Brian
You know, when people don’t have a whole shit ton of money, they’re not going to spend it on a movie with a main actor who’s got, you know, a couple of pending, like you know, criminal trials And on top of that, really bad press. So you know, i think that’s other part of it too is just people aren’t spending money on things when they’re trying to scrape by, just to live every day.

0:26:23 – John
Yeah, and it’s, yeah, it’s. you know the old this economy comment, but it’s true. Like that’s true Is that this movie is tucked in with, like Spider-Man multiverse to you know, and then, and then you got the Indiana Jones movie coming out, which I also expect to be a bomb, but maybe some people who just love hair.

You know Harrison Ford or Indy are going to. Well, let’s save our money for that one, because I haven’t heard any creepy stuff about Harrison Ford. Let’s go spend our money on the Indiana Jones movie instead of the Flash movie. Yeah, because you make the point, brian. This would be like if something came out about Toby McGuire right before Spider-Man came out, you know, or Hugh Jackman before, like, one of the Wolverine or X-Men movies came out. It’s not like, say, if we heard bad shit about Jeremy Renner before the Avengers came out, because it’s like, well, he’s kind of the least important Avenger, maybe people will ignore it when he’s on screen and not really focus on him because they’re really there for, you know, captain America and Iron Man and stuff. So yeah, when the movie is called The Flash.

0:27:25 – Brian
Yes, that’s, that’s my point here is just like it’s hard to to look Warner Brothers in the eye and say oh, you guys tried, You knew exactly what you were going to get into. You knew it, And I also. I also think that it shows on screen too, because I think that there was a point where Warner Brothers said we’re not spending any more money on this fucking thing. you know, and where I saw that at was in the VFX.

0:27:58 – John
Like I was wondering how long it would take you to to to break. Well, there’s a lot to unpack for this movie, so it’s going to take a while before, before you go into detail, you know the director has you know and some may call bullshit said that like oh, it was purposely bad looking.

0:28:15 – Brian
Yeah, fuck him, i don’t care, and I know that he is full of shit, full of fucking shit. Here’s the real reason. I said this on on a comment on TikTok. Ok, i said this to someone who’s doing or viewing The Flash And I mentioned the same thing and broke it down. Here’s the reason why the VFX look like crap. Ok, the Suits and Warner Brothers saw that they’re spending a shit ton of money over the course of 10 years in this fucking movie. Ok, they reach the point where they’re like we’re not spending any more money on this thing. They had to do reshoots, which that’s expensive. Ok, you had to add in a post credit scene. You had to add in the end credit scene, you know. So you’ve got all this stuff. You also realize that you have to dump more money into marketing this turd Turd because your main actor is a criminal and went on a crime spree after production.

0:29:12 – John
I feel bad for Michael Keaton. The guy had to do double press.

0:29:17 – Brian
OK. So if you’ve got all this and you’re, like I, got a choice here between spending more money on the visual effects for a superhero movie or or spending more money on press screeners and sending out stuff and more billboards and more Michael Keaton interviews and spending more to juice this marketing turd, you’re going to spend more on the juicing the marketing turd and you’re going to get the director the poor director and basically put them in a bad light and make them look like an idiot When they’re in interviews and have to say oh yeah, that bad visual effects that look like PlayStation 2 graphics. That’s on purpose, right?

0:30:03 – John
Give it PlayStation Early, PlayStation 3.

0:30:06 – Brian
Oh well, I’m not saying early PlayStation, i’m saying PlayStation 2. No, no, early PlayStation 3.

0:30:11 – John
Oh really You’re very nice person, yeah, ok.

0:30:15 – Brian
But that’s my that’s. What I’m saying is this was absolutely a financial decision. They didn’t want to spend any more money and any more time on polishing a turd, when they have to spend all that time and money on marketing this film.

0:30:28 – John
Well, you know, i, i could understand that I don’t, i don’t believe him, but I could understand what the director says When he’s.

0:30:36 – Brian
when Flash is in and I know this is a Marvel- word, but I can’t remember the name. in the quantum realm It is not the good good choice. No, no, it’s the speed force. OK, speed.

0:30:50 – John
Yeah, when he’s in the speed force, I can understand him trying to claim like, oh, everything’s distorted. I don’t believe it, but I don’t understand it. I don’t believe it, but I don’t understand it. I want to see him justify the babies, Yes, And this movie opens with Batman being like hey flash.

I didn’t want you, but you ought to go save this hospital because I’m chasing somebody who stole something from Wayne Tech. And so Flash is there and the building starts to collapse and all these babies fall out the window And it goes into this, like you know, ridiculous scene of Flash, like climbing up debris using a super speed And in a reference to something that has never brought up again. Like you don’t, you don’t show something if there’s no payoff. Is that Flash now has like a calorie thing, and if the calories get too low he can’t be. The Flash has got to eat. And, and they always say your opening scene should set the tone for the rest of your movie. So the tone of this movie is comical farce grabbing babies, putting them in microwaves, eating burritos, eating candy bars, saving a dog that’s trying to eat mustard It reminds me.

This reminds me of the beginning of Superman 3, when Richard Linklater no longer had to try to mimic Richard Donner. He’s like I’m just going to make a hard day’s night, but with Superman, And in the first five minutes that movie people went what the fuck is this? You know, yeah. And I think that some people probably went oh, this movie is going to be incredibly stupid because this guy is saving computer generated babies and eating burritos. This is going to be. There’s going to be no stakes. This is going to be dumb.

0:32:30 – Brian
So, yeah, And my favorite, are that the babies literally look like the dancing baby from Ali McBio That is dating, that is dating me like a lot, but that is what went through my head when I saw these nightmares.

0:32:46 – John
Yeah, On screen If we do have any young people listening to this. Ali McBio was a show on Fox in the 1990s.

0:32:52 – Brian
Yes, And there was a major like it was at least a summer of people obsessed with a dancing computer generated baby.

0:33:02 – John
Yeah, Because you really want to have a kid? Yes, it was everywhere.

0:33:06 – Brian
And that. And here’s the thing, these babies in the flash look just like it. They do 100 percent. Yeah, i mean, here’s the thing, john. I didn’t have a problem so much with the comedy in this, and maybe it’s because of the fact that whenever I’d seen Ezra Miller in previous versions of the flash, you know, they were extremely grating And like I really wanted to to like punch the flash in the face every time they said a word. It was that level of annoying Annoying in this they actually were not as annoying. comically Well, compared to older flash was Yeah, older flash was not.

0:33:53 – John
Younger flash Was an idiot And you know it’s interesting, i know this. This whole episode is not just why did this movie fail, but it can’t even be blamed on word of mouth, because the first weekend before anybody had seen it outside Stephen King and some some paid off guy reviewer from Warner Brothers like it it bombed its opening weekend. So this isn’t. Hey, don’t go see it. The graphics are really bad And you know. And the payoff at the end isn’t very good. Don’t go see us. Oh, thanks for helping me save my money, dave. You know it’s like no, it’s it. It bombed right away. So it’s not, it’s not a word of mouth thing.

0:34:33 – Brian
No, no, it managed to do that all on its own. Yeah, the VFX were some of the worst that I had seen in any superhero movie. Like even Black Panther was bad. like there was the ending fight in Black Panther was terrible, But this one was just another level of bad.

0:34:54 – John
Well, i just I go back and I think this may be the for all of our listeners that have listened from the beginning. Tell me this is my 95th reference to Jurassic Park. If it is, i might let me know. But just that movie is from 1993. It just had its 30th anniversary and that movie holds up because they didn’t just think they could do everything in a computer.

0:35:19 – Brian
Well, the other reason too and this is something that has become more prominent nowadays with superhero films is that the the economics of how VFX houses actually do the work for the superhero films is very much slanted to churn out as many VFX shots as possible at the expense of VFX artists being burnt the fuck out, yes, not having enough time to do the job properly And basically a competitive nature in which the VFX artists is no longer lauded for their artistry but just thought of as a factory making tool. Yeah, do your monkey work. Monkeys, yeah.

Where you’re expected to do 120 hours a week and no pay or low pay, and coming on weekends and stay nights late and oh yeah, you might be doing this one, This one. If you don’t like it, we’ll get the fuck out, And that’s, I really think, part of it. I think that we’re seeing part of that. Now, what does that mean? It means that maybe you know we don’t get a new superhero movie every year, You know, and that personally, for me, I’m fine with not having a new superhero movie every year if it means that artists don’t have to, you know, eat out of a dog food dish at two o’clock in the morning at the studio because they have to render out, you know, 50 rotoscoping shots, but I really think that’s part of why we’re seeing these things.

As terrible is the economics of the effects when it comes to superhero films is really punishing the VFX artists to the point where they’re not able to compete with the amount of work needed And they just can’t. Oh, absolutely.

0:37:11 – John
I couldn’t agree more. But I think it probably also even comes from a screenwriting or producer level, like, oh wow, this seems like one of the most complicated scenes we could have ever imagined in one of these movies. And they go ah, that special effects, idiots will do it, yeah.

0:37:24 – Brian
Oh yeah, no, if you’re just shooting everything that’s a green screen just expecting, oh well, the wizardry and the computer can do all of it, then yeah, you’re not helping yourself. You know, you’re exactly right. Jurassic Park The reason why it holds up is because it was a combination of the two.

0:37:40 – John
It was a combination of robotics, amateur trickery and CGI.

0:37:45 – Brian
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a combination of the two, um, but aside from the VFX, okay, uh, one of the other things that I didn’t think made this movie work at all was just the overall plot. Yeah, this plot was just paper thin.

0:38:04 – John
Well, the thing is, it was simultaneously paper thin and convoluted as hell, Like I thought to myself. You know, I should probably see this movie for the time travel explanation, like once more before the show. But I’m like yeah, I also just don’t want to, So I apologize.

0:38:21 – Brian
Oh, i got the time travel explanation thing. That actually made way more sense to me than the doctors. Not the Doctor Strange, but it was the, the, the Hulk talking to the, the ancient one in Avengers Endgame that Michael Keaton has a way of making things explained well.

0:38:42 – John
And I know that Bruce Wayne is a is a brilliant like scientist, yeah, but just like God, batman’s a Mary Sue And he’s like, yeah, well, when you’re talking about time travel, you know, and he’s like using all this pasta, i’m like, is there anything Bruce Wayne can’t do?

0:38:57 – Brian
No, not this version, not Michael Keaton version.

0:39:00 – John
Bruce Wayne, he can do all things And he can make his like penis like detract to. He’s like he pulls out his 15 inch costume. He’s like that’s too big for me, so don’t worry. What do you want? Eight, she goes. Yeah, sure, you know I’m.

0:39:12 – Brian
Batman. Oh, that’s, that’s what he’s. That’s what he screams when he’s coming. I’m Batman, you’re what, you What? Nothing, i’m for a boy. Bruce Wayne, this is for get back, yeah, but I mean I got the whole time travel thing that if you make an issue, if you, you change something, then you’re not just changing the future, you’re changing the past. I got all that. I’m also not convinced that this Michael Keaton Batman is our Michael Keaton Batman from the 89 film, right?

0:39:48 – John
Because there’s like infinite amounts of of different versions of different people and they sometimes look the same, sometimes look different. It’s, it’s cheap, it’s I. I’m sorry, but you know, multiverse and time travel are ways the comic book writers got themselves out of jams. That’s all it is. It’s not for creative purposes. It’s oh hey, we killed that character off. Well, it’s a multiverse it? or? or oh, we want to do like a standalone Batman comic where he dies or something. Oh well, it’s a multiverse thing. It’s not the real Batman, it’s not canon, you know, it’s just, it’s a, it’s a writing crutch. That’s all this multiverse crap is.

0:40:29 – Brian
In this regard, and when it comes to films, what we’ve seen is that the multiverse has been more or less a nostalgia bait, right? How many times can I fit nostalgia into a movie? Oh yeah, toby McGuire, super Spider-Man, andrew Garfield, spider-man. What would happen if they’re in the multiverse? right, we can get all of them. That way, we, that way, we triple our nostalgia. We could show Patrick.

0:40:55 – John
Stewart as Xavier again. Yeah, yeah.

0:40:57 – Brian
So I mean, that’s what they’re all doing. It’s no longer a how can I get this character you know, who maybe died and we died, to show back up again? It’s well, how can I get this character that maybe was popular 10, 20, 15 years ago and somehow make it work with whatever bullshit continuity I’ve already come up with? Well, Brian, let me. let me ask you a question. And I think that’s me being very cynical, by the way.

0:41:22 – John
Yes, Well, this, i think, is the most probing question, and I don’t care if it’s Marvel or DC, or if image somehow starts making movies. Whatever comic book is, if there are multiverses and there are nearly unlimited versions of every character, does that not take the stakes out of everything?

0:41:46 – Brian
Yes and no, yes and no. And here’s why I say yes and no.

0:41:50 – John
Well, can I interject?

0:41:51 – Brian
Yes absolutely.

0:41:52 – John
And I’ll just say when I see like Spider-Man 2 and I see Toby McGuire trying to stop that you know subway train, I’m like, oh, what do I care, There’s four million more of him, But anyway, let’s go on.

0:42:04 – Brian
Well, i was going to say in its current iteration, the way we’re seeing it on screen, yes, it absolutely does remove every stake from any movie that dives into it. Okay, where I have seen it work well is surprisingly enough on the Flash.

0:42:23 – John
TV series. I’ve heard this, i’ve heard. I’ve not I’ve not seen the show, but I have heard that You’re not the first person that I’ve heard that is where I’ve seen it work well.

0:42:30 – Brian
They so, first of all, the whole idea of Flashpoint and multiverses like colliding. That’s not a new thing to media. We’ve seen that before in the Flash, the Flash series, which I haven’t watched any of the more recent seasons I know it’s now ended And honestly, like I just kind of lost interest And honestly the series itself started to really go downhill. But at its peak it had tackled the concept of the multiverse And it actually did it really well. There even is a Michael Keaton 89 universe where you literally have Alexander Knox show up And it’s called Earth 89. That’s that’s hit. That’s Michael Keaton Batman’s Earth, and there’s a newspaper with Michael Keaton and Selena Kyle right there about getting have them getting married. So they tackled it in a way where the incident that’s being that’s happening I haven’t seen, i haven’t seen it so long, but the incident is being happening ultimately meant that the individual universes are honestly colliding And the end result of it is the multiverses that exist anymore. That’s where I’ve seen it work.

Yeah, okay, i mean you know when, the threat of all of those different versions that no longer being there, that’s the only existential threat you can have with the multiverse. Whatever you’re going to do is going to destroy all of it.

0:44:03 – John
And that actually does happen Like that’s like well, what do you do now? Yeah, it makes me think to let’s talk about another time travel move. Let’s talk about back to the future too. And you somebody might have a problem with you know they say those dollars go to back to the future, But but one thing you can say is that you that there’s ever a point that you’re confused narratively on what is happening, you know, and doc like breaks it off.

He’s like this is just a branch timeline. Let’s go back in time and stop this branch timeline from ever happening and we’ll fix it. And they do. Yes, It’s like it’s very clear, cut and dry. This. This is kind of just a mess. And it’s like wait, Zaw’s there and he and wait, and he already killed Superman, And there’s, there’s also a super girl who we didn’t know existed until this movie, and what? and wait in Batman doesn’t look like Ben Affleck, but they all have Alfred’s And so they can look different. But yet Flash looks like himself and Aquaman looks like himself, But Batman looks different than Batman.

0:45:15 – Brian
Well, Aquaman doesn’t exist in that.

0:45:17 – John
Aquaman is a dog, yeah, yeah, and it’s like but Batman’s a lady now, when he was, when he was a fella before, and I’m like what the fuck is happening.

0:45:29 – Brian
Well, i got, i want. I do want to talk about Batman in this. Which one? My quake? Okay, the only one that matters? Um sorry.

0:45:38 – John
I did like that opening action sequence with Ben Affleck. That was tight The costume. I’ll tell you that right. Oh, with the blue and the well, that’s his motorcycle outfit.

0:45:47 – Brian
Well, not even just that Like. I’m seeing that that they got lazy on these costumes because you can see like up their nose now. Did you notice that?

Hmm, Like every time, every time Batman’s had a cow on, it’s always like covered their nose to a point where you like you could, like you’d see little like little slits where the nose is at, and I noticed that in this one. This is the first time that I’ve ever seen the nose exposed. Now, that’s a little thing, but I’m just like it looks goofy. Yeah, you know, um, but no, i I want to talk about Michael Keaton as Batman. Okay, this was for me And, i think, john, for you, the highlight of the whole thing.

0:46:31 – John
Oh, yeah, yeah, And I don’t know if I’m blinded by it or it’s I will.

0:46:36 – Brian
I’ll answer for you. I was blinded by it, I know. Every time he came on I was just like, oh, it’s 1990, all over again.

0:46:47 – John
I mean, couldn’t they? but you know, I know this is really picky, but couldn’t they just given him the Batman Returns bats? That bat outfit made him look fat. Uh, the bulky armor made him look Yeah.

0:47:01 – Brian
Yeah, well that that that douche version of Ezra Miller had to take a perfectly good Batman Returns outfit and butcher it.

0:47:10 – John
Yeah.

0:47:12 – Brian
I don’t know about you, John, but were you watching that and going like you, fucking asshole? Oh ruining a perfectly good suit.

0:47:20 – John
Absolutely. But I did understand that, like they probably. You know, i don’t know if the different like studios watch each other stuff, but yeah, i wonder if the DC guys watched like far from home and went, okay, nobody has any idea which Spider-Man is who at the end of that movie. Yeah, so like, maybe it’s like okay if he makes this really goofy flash outfit. You won’t like be confused on which flash is which. I don’t know.

0:47:47 – Brian
I went with. why couldn’t they just I don’t know grab garbage bags and wear some garbage bags, or Batman?

0:47:57 – John
Yeah, i got a red bad outfit that I haven’t put ears on yet And wear that. You can wear that. By the way, i’m Batman, alfred. I have a retractable penis, yeah. Alfred used to put the ears on, you know, and then I would pay him in my retractable penis.

0:48:12 – Brian
But I just got to say like I liked everything that Michael Keaton did in this, but I also believe that there’s no way in hell that this Batman could go up against space aliens Ever.

0:48:29 – John
I, you know, i agree with you, but I think there were only a few scenes that like were egregious in that sense, but I kind of loved them at the same time. When, like Batman is putting high powered explosives on one of Zod’s goons, i’m like fuck yeah, fuck yeah, it doesn’t matter who this human, he’s motherfucking Michael Keaton, batman, i’m like jizzing in the theater, you know. It’s like well, you need some more butter for your popcorn, you know? so, yeah, i, oh, i’m sorry, i was blinded Brian. I was blinded John, i’m sorry.

0:49:06 – Brian
He’s like he was 70 years old.

0:49:11 – John
Yeah, and he can kick ass more now than he could.

0:49:13 – Brian
Oh yeah, he absolutely can’t kick ass, yeah, he absolutely can’t kick ass And this is not a not a slight against Michael Keaton at all And his Batman. I love his Batman. He is my Batman Okay, and I know he’s your Batman too Okay. But that Batman is suited for crazed villains, not super, super villains Like he’s not. He’s not going up against General Zod, okay.

0:49:39 – John
Right.

0:49:40 – Brian
He’s not going up against the Kryptonian, all right, i’m sorry, it doesn’t make any sense to me. That’s also why I say like this Batman isn’t the same Batman from 1989. This is a different variant. I also did find it hilarious that, since this is the only Batman that doesn’t give a shit about killing, that his Gotham city has no crime anymore. Did you catch that?

0:50:05 – John
Yeah, it’s kind of like you know that argument that Joe Jackson beat greatness into the Jackson five. Batman just went on a murder spree in Gotham until it was a great place to look.

0:50:17 – Brian
He said he’s like oh yeah, you know, they didn’t need me anymore. Gotham is the cleanest city ever And it’s like, really, your version of Gotham is the cleanest city ever. I wonder why that could be. Could it be because of the fact that you had no problems strapping explosives to clowns and shut up an exerctist people Clowns ass and throw them in a sewer.

0:50:37 – John
Yeah.

0:50:39 – Brian
And you’re just like. You know what. I’ve got a bomb. I’m going to blow up this penguin guy. I don’t give a fuck, i’m just like wow, he’s the only one who got results.

0:50:50 – John
You know I did. At first, i was like I hated the intro. I’m like, oh, he’s like got this long hair and this beard and all that, but I’m like this, this actually adds up for me, like when I thought about it, because and I know that, and, brian, i know your, your logic reason for hating the opening of Batman returns I I love it for the symbolic reason of it. You know, with the lights at Wayne, manor and everything, hate that shit, is that.

The idea, though, is, is that Bruce Wayne is just sitting in darkness, just waiting, waiting to be who he really is. You know, batman or sorry, bruce Wayne is the secret identity. Batman is the real person. He’s just waiting for that signal to go off, and the only chance he has to live a better life is with Selena Kyle, and she, she absolutely destroys that, and we realized by the end of Batman returns that the Gotham City will never not need Batman, and I still stand by the scripts ending that doesn’t have Catwoman somehow in her perfect cow is that the bat signal goes off and the juice running the bat signal runs out, and I know that that is a very nihilistic ending to that movie, but that’s still in my mind how the movie really ends. And you know he’ll always need to be Batman, but apparently in 20 years he, he done, figured it out, where now it’s like super nice to live there, i don’t know.

0:52:14 – Brian
It’s yeah, oh, i would. We wouldn’t know, because we never saw Gotham. Because, apparently, annie Machete said it was too hard, with too many hats, to try to replicate Tim Burton’s Gotham. Well, anton first is a genius, though, and Anton first was a genius, he passed away.

0:52:34 – John
Yeah, and he’s a for people to know. he’s the guy that did all the set, designs and miniatures and everything for Batman 89. Yeah but, I’m.

0:52:45 – Brian
I like to think that the real version of Michael Keaton’s Batman did end up with Selena Kyle in my mind, so like one stop face.

0:52:56 – John
What was that with her torched up face?

0:52:59 – Brian
She has like nine lives. That was one last life. You know, you don’t know.

0:53:03 – John
Oh yeah, she saved that last one for next Christmas. Sure, there you go.

0:53:07 – Brian
Okay, I like to think that. I like to think that because I think you know Batman and, again, I didn’t mean for this to be a Batman episode, but well, he is Batman three, That’s what. Batman returns.

0:53:18 – John
again Batman continues which is what Tim Burton wanted to call Batman three.

0:53:23 – Brian
Yeah, But I I like to think that if Batman is able to finally, like you know, make Gotham clean, and make Gotham great again. Make Gotham great again that maybe he actually does get to settle down and rest a bit.

0:53:42 – John
So that’s the worst thing on the planet for him, though, especially since Alfred died, like that’s why he’s just living in squalor. Well, yeah.

0:53:50 – Brian
And I get it. I get why it’s in this and I don’t have a problem with it. I find it hilarious that he’s become this hippie living in. I’m like, dude, you’re kind of the opposite of that. but OK, No, I think he’s more like Howard Hughes. He just like, oh yeah, no, I got that that five. But he just he kind of looks like a hippie, like with these weren’t sandals.

0:54:10 – John
Yeah, well, it’s probably because Alfred knew where all his shoes were in the houses like the size of 50 houses so he doesn’t know where it’s closet with the shoes are.

0:54:19 – Brian
Yeah, i found it funny that the fight didn’t happen. Oh, i found it funny The fight didn’t happen on, like that massive dining room table. Yeah, like that would have been hilarious if, like that massive table in the first movie, they’re fighting. Hey you over there.

0:54:33 – John
It was the more of the, the, the intimate kitchen area that was right offside Alfred’s room.

0:54:37 – Brian
Yeah, you know the one where he’s talking about how you know. He grabbed him like a sack of old potatoes covered in a nose and his brain ankle.

0:54:46 – John
That was his first and last riding lesson.

0:54:50 – Brian
Yeah.

0:54:50 – John
Now go have sex. I’ll tidy up.

0:54:55 – Brian
Oh, ok, i did want to talk one, one more thing about this movie, and that was the whole relationship between Barry Allen and his mother. What were your thoughts on it, john?

0:55:09 – John
Well, i don’t mean to diverge a little bit, but, and I guess, huge, huge spoilers.

Yeah, huge if you’re still in. I mean, we’ve done a lot of spoilers, but in the movie, the, in the original timeline Ron Livingston I don’t remember Barry Allen’s father’s name, but it’s the actor Henry Allen. Henry Allen, he like, has to go to the store because she needs another can of tomatoes And when he gets home she’s been murdered. And you know he? he runs over to her and tells little Barry to call 911 and he’s holding the bloody knife, he’s getting blood on himself And so they think that he’s the one who did it.

In the end of the movie I’m also taking away the stakes of the entire movie because he just goes back in time and undoes everything, meaning the entire movie never really happened. Yes, it’s a superfluous Yes, yes is that he allows his mother to die And it’s like oh, wow, that’s heavy, that’s deep, like you know, like wow, that’s, that’s really impactful. But in the movie Ron Livingston, henry’s alibi is that he was at the grocery store, but the thing is he never looks up on security footage And so the flash, apparently not actually learning anything and having a zero arc.

He didn’t let him shit Puts the cans on the top shelf so his dad has to look up, which gets you know his dad, you know off the hook and everything. But the problem is is that the movie shows that he pulls into the driveway, here’s screaming, runs into the house, sees his wife murdered and goes oh hey, little flash, go call 911. And so he still could have done the murder By the timeline. Him being at the grocery store proves nothing.

0:57:04 – Brian
OK Colombo.

0:57:06 – John
It’s not like he came home three hours later. Be like boy. You wouldn’t believe the line at Costco, you know.

0:57:13 – Brian
I love how you’ve completely undercut the only like heroic moment in the whole movie. He totally still could have killed his wife. He could if he wanted to. Yeah, You do know in the comics that’s not exactly what happens, right, Like well, I’m going by this movie.

0:57:28 – John
Damn, I know I’ve read Flashpoint. OK, I’m just saying it’s reverse flash.

0:57:33 – Brian
Who’s the one who actually killed? Barry Allen’s mother And you know I wanted yeah Mustard.

0:57:36 – John
Flash. I want to Mustard Flash. I want to Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Thomas Wayne Batman. That was originally going to be the plan. Oh that would be.

0:57:42 – Brian
That was originally going to be the plan? Yeah, No, you’re not. I’m not. I’m not bolstering you. That actually was going to be the plan. Jeffrey Dean Morgan has said that he was going to be the the Thomas Wayne version of Batman, but that Michael Keaton stole his job. So sorry, I like Michael Keaton.

0:58:08 – John
But I just sorry comedian.

0:58:10 – Brian
Sorry, comedian, Maybe next time. Yeah, no, I didn’t have a problem with the main crux being, like you know, trying to save your mom, And the moment at towards the end and this is spoilery where Barry does literally have to kill his mother which in essence, that’s what he’s doing by undoing what he had done in the beginning of the movie. He, in essence, is responsible for killing his mother by not fixing it. Although as you said John, he does end up screwing it up even more.

0:58:46 – John
I mean, he doesn’t essentially kill his mother, he just allows his mother to die. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.

0:58:54 – Brian
He kind of does kill his mother. So that scene for me was a bright spot in this film because there you could definitely tell that there is some like emotional bunch to it And it’s not just bang, bang, whiz, whiz, explodey, you know stuff in the sky. So like that part I bought and I got it and I understood what was going on And it definitely did. I did have some feels over it And funny, would have been nice to maybe have maybe that consideration throughout the rest of the movie.

0:59:33 – John
That was the thing, like sometimes I felt, and I’m okay with comedy in these movies, i like a balance, like I do think the Marvel movies have just basically turned into full blown Benny Hill comedies.

And that kind of drives me nuts. But it’s just a balance between drama and comedy And there were times where I thought this movie nailed it on the comedy And then there were times where I rolled my eyes. I’ll give two examples. When Batman’s describing how time travel works and he’s like using the pasta he just cooked And then he throws the pasta sauce on it as part of like you know the metaphor that he’s making, and then he starts grabbing this giant, like $300 thing of Parmesan cheese and he’s scraping it onto the pasta, you know, to kind of finish off the dish Like young berries, like what is the pasta? What is that a metaphor for?

And, like you know, older berries, like I think that’s over now, like he’s just adding cheese, i’m like that’s funny, yes, but the scene where the reporter lady who he went to high school with, comes to his place and he does like the flashing, where he cleans his place in like a split second And she goes well, i didn’t think your apartment would be this clean. He goes well, you know I’m not your typical kind of guy and puts his arm in the wall and like all the dishes fall out of the little closet pantry, i’m like that’s like sitcom humor, that I’m like that, yes, that I rolled my eyes pretty deep. There was a ton of sitcom humor in this, so I think it was like 50, 50, like 50% of the time I think the humor really hit its mark and 50% of the time like oh God you know, i think when we’re in the other universe and we see young Barry with his bizarro roommates, that scene I actually thought was funny.

1:01:22 – Brian
Yeah, because that was funny roommate comedy, like I liked that. But then, as you said, like there were just some very cringe I think that’s the word that the young people used to cringe they cringe comedy moments in this. What was a real cringe moment for me was Michael Shannon is Zod like man.

1:01:47 – John
We even say that that was Michael Shannon, because I think he had an out of body experience. He’s not.

1:01:52 – Brian
I’ve never seen a character actor just phone a fucking performance in like Michael Shannon and Zod And you could tell that he was just. I don’t want to be here, Yeah.

1:02:03 – John
But you know what, just like Michael Cain in Jaws 4, he had to pay off that boat. You know, yeah.

1:02:10 – Brian
Had to pay off the boat. But yeah, michael Shannon is Zod Supposed to be the big bad of this movie, not really. He’s just there to say that he killed Superman as a baby and get punched. That’s it.

1:02:29 – John
I don’t even think he was supposed to be the big bad. I mean, yes, technically, but I think he was just supposed to be the obstacle to let the narrative continue.

1:02:39 – Brian
Yeah, I guess so. You know, I mean, I guess you could say the big bad movie was Black Flash.

1:02:46 – John
Well, i think yeah, it was just flash. In general, i think he’s the most. I think he is the villain and hero of the movie And maybe that’s a problem.

1:02:55 – Brian
And we didn’t talk yet about Supergirl. Do you want to talk a little bit about Supergirl?

1:02:59 – John
Yeah, I thought she was fine.

1:03:01 – Brian
Yeah, You know actress is really good. I actually I liked her. I just for me at least I felt that she wasn’t given enough to do.

1:03:11 – John
Oh God, no, no, it was kind of like, you know, and I saw people online mention this, so it’s not. This isn’t like an original idea for me, but like, hey, batman, will you help us? No, five minutes later, yes. It’s like, hey, supergirl, will you help us? No, five minutes later, yes. And I think something was cut out of this movie. They’re absolutely must have been, because she was like she’s like yeah, you humans aren’t we’re saving.

I’m going to go see what Zod’s up to And Zod just like, kills a human being And she goes no, it’s like wait, i thought you said human beings weren’t we’re saving, but now you’re going to come back and help them. Like something was drastically cut out of that.

1:03:50 – Brian
Well, I think that, and I wonder what would happen if this was in there I really do think that there was some kind of relationship that was supposed to kind of grow between Young Berry and Supergirl, because, again, spoilers for this movie. But I mean, if you were, you know, one hour in this episode.

You should probably know that. But the whole Ipidus for the ending of this movie, the whole, like you know, climax of the film being that Black Fash actually is Young Berry, who had tried to time travel so many times and kept getting you know, failure after failure after failure, after failure to save Supergirl and Batman, that there must be some reason why he keeps doing that. And it’s hinted at in the earlier in the movie when they’re in the Batwing and Young Berry has taken a picture of Supergirl and he’s going like oh yeah, this is, this is for you know our children.

1:04:53 – John
Yeah, our kids want to see this.

1:04:55 – Brian
Our kids are going to want to see this And I’m really getting that. There must have been some scene or a couple scenes in there where it’s hinting that there is a potential interest between Supergirl and Young Berry, and for whatever reason, they decided to cut that. But when doing so, it really negates any of that emotional impact of why they’re doing what they’re doing at the end of the movie.

1:05:23 – John
Because he’s impulsive, Brian.

1:05:28 – Brian
That’s not enough.

1:05:29 – John
I know, i know.

1:05:30 – Brian
That’s just not enough.

1:05:34 – John
And especially since Barry Allen, like Young, berry Allen is this selfish, self-absorbed, idiotic, sheltered swat who only had his powers for like three days. But then it’s like no, i have to be this great hero. It’s like you’ve had these powers for three days and you’ve been a moron the entire time. Yeah, yeah.

1:05:54 – Brian
Yeah, Totally. Now I saw this in the film and I immediately knew that I had to ask you about it.

1:06:02 – John
OK.

1:06:05 – Brian
What did you think of Nicholas Cage as Superman? I fucking loved it. But I saw the giant fucking spider. I’m like oh my god, john must be jizzing in his pants right now.

1:06:20 – John
But the amount of time that they gave to it. I imagine the average fan who’s not like an Uberdork like you and I, or probably like what the fuck is that You know, obviously, for all of those that have heard Kevin Smith talk about and the Tim Burton, the rewrite he did for Tim Burton Superman script that never came to be like for us we’re like ha ha ha. But I don’t know if you should just cater to the super Uber fans, like I bet most people in the audience are. like what is that? Wait, is that Nick fucking Cage? Like what the hell’s going on?

Yeah, Well, for me it was more or less like the fact that Nicholas Cage was fighting the giant fucking spider And I was like, oh my god, this is the closest you’ll ever get to seeing it on actual film And I know that like I should just laugh at that and not think too analytically about it, especially in a movie like this, but every other version of the character was actually something that had been put on screen. Yeah, technically, nick Cage’s Superman does not fucking exist. Seriously, you know like, oh, we got horrible CGI Christopher Reeves and horrible CGI. Supergirl and horrible CGI, you know, george Reeves who killed himself. Classy guys, thank you for very good.

1:07:48 – Brian
But yeah Well, nicholas Cage was horrible CGI too, right, like they all were.

1:07:53 – John
Well, i think, actually, from what I heard, nick Cage came on to do like whatever Brian, you’d probably know more about this but like just some green screen stuff, like the get face capture, yeah, and like apparently they were like he was like all about it. He was just a fucking pump to be there, you know. So he was there probably for like nine hours and they got everything they needed to do the CGI.

1:08:16 – Brian
But either way, like I it, for me his face looked weird, just like all of the CGI characters in a particular scene looked fucking weird.

1:08:26 – John
I almost laugh when I saw Christopher Reeve and I apologize to the Alan Slater. Alan Slater. I’m like I don’t know the actress that played Supergirl. I’m like he looked terrible.

1:08:37 – Brian
Yeah, they all look like waxy dolls.

1:08:40 – John
And the thing is like I know Grand Marf Tarkin in Rouge 1 did not look great. No, we trash that one, But that was like five years ago or whatever the hell it was, maybe less than that, but the thing is that looked 10 times more believable than a three second. Christopher Reeves, you know digital drop in, i’m like.

1:09:03 – Brian
I’m telling you, john, they did not want to spend any more money or time on this movie than they had to. They went all into marketing. It’s polishing a turd. That’s what they did, yeah.

1:09:19 – John
Yeah, they probably figured well once we get the idiots in the theater, yes, hairs of the effects look bad.

1:09:23 – Brian
Yeah, no, that’s, that was 100% it. I mean Jesus Christ, like I remember hearing from people who had seen it at CinemaCon and they had come back and said like oh yeah, it’s a great movie And I look forward to them finishing the effects. And they never finished the effects. The effects they saw at CinemaCon were the same effects in the final print.

1:09:49 – John
And that reminds me Brian we, to give our audience a little background on us When we were in grad school, we went to this thing in Boston, this, you know, cinema, digital tech, whatever you want to call it thing, but it was at the same time. Unfortunately, brian and I were not in the Heinz Field scene of Dark Knight Rises, because we were in Boston at the time.

1:10:13 – Brian
We were in Boston at the time. We were at no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We weren’t in Boston, We were at Cleveland. We’re in Boston.

1:10:22 – John
Well, irregardless, let’s not argue, Let’s not pick her like an old married couple. Yeah yeah.

We were not in Pittsburgh when they did the Heinz Field scene, that’s right. And I remember talking to our buddy Grant in grad school. He’s like oh man, it was crazy because the you know Bane was doing this voice. Like oh shit. And he’s like man, oh man, i don’t know what the final voice is going to be, but man, we were laughing so hard. They’re like why is he doing that stupid voice? And then that was the fucking voice of the final movie.

1:10:53 – Brian
Yeah, yeah, but that’s that’s the thing is. When you don’t want to spend any more time on a turd of a film, this is what you left with. You’re left with shitty effects And you’re left with a director who, unfortunately, has to look like a fucking idiot in interview after interview after interview trying to justify why the effects look like crap. And I’m sure that the people who really love the flash will say you just don’t get it. You don’t understand the lore. No, you’re right, i don’t understand all the lore. Why? Because I’m a Batman fan first, not a flash fan.

1:11:31 – John
Well, my DC comic fandom. My two favorites growing up were Batman and Flash. There you go, and I’m like just because I love Flash as a kid does not mean this movie doesn’t have a whole hell of a lot of problems. Yeah, yeah, i’m not.

1:11:49 – Brian
Batman and Robin, but I love Batman, the character Exactly.

1:11:53 – John
Just because the character you love is in it doesn’t mean it can’t be shite And speaking of Batman and Robin. Oh, I was going to say, are we going to wrap it up? We got to wrap on this one man.

1:12:06 – Brian
We got to. We got to wrap on this one. Ok. so the minute that I saw George Clooney come out as Bruce Wayne, i literally was just like are you fucking kidding me?

1:12:23 – John
Well, you know, this is huge reshoots too right?

1:12:26 – Brian
Oh, absolutely.

1:12:27 – John
I from what I understand that that scene didn’t exist Well in the original version and for anybody that doesn’t know, they did a back girl TV while streaming shows.

1:12:40 – Brian
It was a movie.

1:12:41 – John
It was a movie, yeah, a movie Yeah, it was, they had Michael Keaton in it. And then, when HBO became like the max and all this corporate horseshit, they decided not to release this finished movie for a huge, huge tax write off.

1:12:56 – Brian
It was a massive tax And, honestly, like I’ve seen people who’ve said like they should put it out in public domain so they can avoid that.

1:13:05 – John
Yeah, Well, but they’re not going to do that. They can’t make any money off it. But right, Originally it was supposed to be Michael Keaton and back girl step out of the limousine and they go and flash goes, you know, and then it ends. But then it’s supposed to pay off later And you’re supposed to really. They’re going to explain how the time travel did this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Michael Keaton is supposed to be like the overseer or elder Batman of the universe. Yeah, And all the different multiverse which I’m cool with.

I’m totally with that. That’s fine. Yeah, because they get more Michael Keaton. But then they just went well, since we’re scrapping everything because James Gunn wants to like redo everything, we’re just going to throw in George Clooney and go ha, fuck you idiots.

1:13:50 – Brian
That literally was a fuck you idiots moment.

1:13:54 – John
Because there is a bad joke payoff where Barry older Barry loses a tooth and for some reason glues it into his head. Lays down the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen, and at the end of the thing. When he sees George Clooney’s Batman, he goes boo, a wide mouth and the tooth falls out. The payoff of the tooth joke. And Brian, correct me if I’m wrong. Did you get a sense that in this universe Bruce Wayne is not Batman?

1:14:19 – Brian
Yes, I did get that sense.

1:14:23 – John
Yeah, like George Clooney is just Bruce Wayne, that any never became Batman. Yeah, because he kind of acts like well, you’re talking about. And why pay off or set some rather not pay off? Why set something up, the polar opposite, that you’re never going to pay off?

1:14:39 – Brian
Right, because there’s no way in hell that George Clooney would ever decide to be Batman again.

1:14:46 – John
It reminds me of like when Alf, like when the government found him, and they’re like tone it next season to out to find out how he gets out of this And it’s like, oh, we canceled Alf, never mind, that’s because next season. Alf is dead. Yeah, they absolutely ripped him to shreds in a government lab.

1:15:03 – Brian
He’s in a Petri dish Next to the alien from Independence Day being operated on by Dr Okan. Okay, yeah, i. when I saw that, i immediately it was just like oh, are you fucking kidding me?

1:15:15 – John
Like, really, i think they wanted to end the movie with, like you know, either end the movie on a laugh or a jump scare, right, Like depending on the type of movie you’re making. And so it’s like let’s end it on a laugh. George Clooney, everyone the most derided Bruce Wayne ever.

1:15:29 – Brian
Let’s end it on him, Do you know, see, I think that’s more of. We’re ending it on a fuck you to the audience.

1:15:40 – John
I think that their PR team would say that we did it to make them laugh. But yeah, it is a fuck you. It’s a fuck you to the audience.

1:15:45 – Brian
It’s a fuck you to the audience and and really like it’s the the, the giant shit cherry on a massive turn of a film.

1:15:59 – John
I mean more than him being in it, and that being the alternate ending, i just have more of a problem of basic screenwriting 101, where Barry learned nothing and still fucked with everything. Yes, you know, and that’s why George Clooney is Batman. It’s like you fucked up every.

1:16:21 – Brian
It goes on, but Shawn, he needs his dad.

1:16:26 – John
Even though his dad’s like hey, i’ve kind of come to terms of the fact that I’m going to die here in prison. I’m even used to being as raped, so it’s just like, just like. like, let your dad just live out his days with like those ginger freaks and Shawshank Redemption and be a piece be a piece.

1:16:45 – Brian
I’m just saying, john, he, he needs to add. That’s why he had to do the thing, that’s why he had to completely undercut his whole moral message of the whole movie is because he needs to add You know nothing.

1:16:57 – John
Well, do you know what I think would have been really intense, and like they never ever would have the balls to do this? What And I partially, well, not just partially, but it’s not from the comics What if Barry, like, redid all this stuff but then somehow and freed his dad, but then somehow found out his dad actually did kill his mom?

1:17:20 – Brian
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh oh that, now that right, there would be an interesting movie, wouldn’t it? Yeah, he had.

1:17:29 – John
He had to learn the the ultimate lesson as hard as humanly possible.

1:17:35 – Brian
Yeah, but here’s the thing. I can see people coming out at you saying like this is a a Jack Napier killed Batman’s parents deal.

1:17:48 – John
Well, also, i think you remember that movie, the Mist. Yes, You know, and how it’s like the end of the ass to kill everybody.

1:17:53 – Brian
The end is horrible Yeah.

1:17:56 – John
And that would have been. that would have been this goofy movie where a baby was put in a microwave, you know, and all these jokes would have ended with just human being being emotionally shattered. They would have been like, hmm, i don’t know, here’s another version.

1:18:11 – Brian
that would be interesting too. What if, when he does go back, that alternate version is actually the killer? Like that alternate version of Henry Allen is killer? Yeah, you know what I mean. Like this thing is still going to happen, but he didn’t change his mom’s death?

1:18:31 – John
Yeah, yes.

1:18:32 – Brian
Yes.

1:18:34 – John
Hmm, interesting. I think we’re writing a better movie, brian, we are writing a better movie, but hey if you want to get nuts?

1:18:41 – Brian
oh, let’s get nuts. That’s one criticism that I didn’t mention. Unfortunately, the screenwriters did not understand that throwing in pop culture references like that that have no real like lead in in a dialogue scene doesn’t make for a good scene.

1:19:03 – John
Oh, you mean like the solo effect Chewbacca, that’s too hard, i’m going to call you.

1:19:08 – Brian
Chewy, no, but even that makes more sense. But, like, when he says, do you want to get nuts? Let’s get nuts. And it’s in reference to hey, do you want to? like, go attack Zod directly And I’m going like the lead into it, the like, the actual like conversation that leads into that line makes zero sense when you think of the character.

Well, we need something for the trailer, brian, i know that, but then they shouldn’t have included in the actual movie. Yeah, they do that all the time where they’ll shoot things for the trailer and then not, do not include in the movie. But this just it didn’t make any sense And it made me go like why the fuck would you throw that in there? First of all, michael Keaton said that to try to distract the Joker. Yeah, okay, everybody who’s like a fan of the let’s get nuts thing, they’re failing to understand that that was done as a distraction. That was Bruce Wayne thinking I’m going to try to distract the Joker in front of me and try to save Vicki from, you know, whatever the fuck these gang members are going to do, but Vicki’s also too stupid to save her. So, yeah, well, she’s saving the popcorn.

1:20:21 – John
Yeah Well, we can’t have that on, you know, because Michael Keaton’s about to fall over. If the popcorn falls on him, he’s going to look silly.

1:20:29 – Brian
It’s going to look silly. You know, this isn’t Mr Mom. Yeah, yeah, Mr Mom.

1:20:35 – John
Okay, this is. This is clean and sober. Was that the name of the movie?

1:20:38 – Brian
Yes, Yeah.

1:20:39 – John
Michael Keaton, okay.

1:20:40 – Brian
Yeah, yeah, but I think some of those lines there just didn’t didn’t land for me.

1:20:48 – John
I did get a little smirk, even though I thought it was lame, when they were going up on the the elevator in Siberia and he goes how much you weigh? I’m like yeah.

1:21:00 – Brian
I was like okay, okay, okay, you got me there Again, Batman. five year old Brian was very happy during those scenes. 37 year old Brian was very disappointed.

1:21:12 – John
I don’t know It, just. it also seems like this guy always worked alone and he immediately is about partnership, all of a sudden It’s lonely, I guess. Yeah, Yeah, Maybe he’s just been so many years since Alfred died just like baiting alone in a giant house And he’s like, he’s in like what they call like the conference room, And it’s like what does that even mean? And so he just like nuts in it And he goes. Nobody will ever see this. I just on the floor. No one will ever see it because this house is.

1:21:44 – Brian
So many people think there were cobwebs.

1:21:47 – John
That wasn’t cobwebs, cobwebs or Bruce Ches here on the game show.

1:21:54 – Brian
Yeah, yeah, i saw. I forget who it was. I think it was. Oh, it was. It was Tony from Hack the movies. He had mentioned in his review of the flash why there was no guano all over the Batcave, considering that Batman hasn’t used it in like decades.

1:22:15 – John
Yeah.

1:22:16 – Brian
And I didn’t think about that at the time. But I mean, he makes a good point.

1:22:21 – John
You know, in the reveal of the Batmobile for it to never be driven. that hurt me, that hurt a lot.

1:22:26 – Brian
Yeah, because that’s a beauty, that’s a dream car.

1:22:30 – John
Yes, right there.

1:22:30 – Brian
Let’s see dream car. Well, I think we’ve talked the flash to death. This was a disappointing film, but not surprising that it was disappointing.

1:22:42 – John
Well, Brian, I got one final question for you.

1:22:44 – Brian
What’s the final? all of this.

1:22:46 – John
Do you think that the DCEU under James Gunn or not just under him, but under anybody do you think it’s salvageable?

1:22:59 – Brian
It depends on what they choose to do. So I really believe that the future of the DCEU, as it’s called now, the not the DCEU, but the DCEU if they really try to make films in the vein of the Batman and the Joker, with filmmakers that have vision and that are less concerned with the interconnection between every film, then, yes, i do think they will be successful. Do I think they will do that? No, because at the end of the day, these films are products. Yeah, they’re not art, they are products. They are not trying to tell compelling stories, they are trying to sell merchandising and they’re trying to sell tickets and they’re trying to sell subscriptions to max.

So, no, i don’t think there will be any sort of, you know, redemption for this. If they go in thinking that, if they’re trying to copy Marvel’s playbook, it won’t work. You know, i won’t work, because the last time they did this, we had the Snyderverse and this is what we got. Um, i’m not going to blame woke culture, because I’ve seen some morons do that. Um, oh, yeah, you know, that’s the default.

1:24:31 – John
Super girl, Superman or.

1:24:33 – Brian
Spulchaff Jax.

1:24:34 – John
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:24:36 – Brian
But I really believe that the only way that the DCU can actually regain any sense of shred of dignity and prestige that these movies had not that long ago. We’re talking dark night rises. That wasn’t that long ago. What was that 2012?

1:25:01 – John
Well, i mean, for better or worse, like, uh, man of Steel and Batman v Superman and even Susan’s, quite those movies made a cut trillion billion dollars.

1:25:10 – Brian
So if you’re going by box office alone, like it wasn’t long, I’m going by actually like they were good, right, you know, like Man of Steel was I, at least, i felt Man of Steel was good, yeah, but I know there were people who don’t like it. But I’m just saying, like that’s not that long ago, okay, okay. And I think if Warner Brothers decides that, listen, we’re not capable of doing what Marvel does. So what can we do? Well, we can tell standalone, single films that are about the characters and maybe deal with some deeper shit than just lasers in the sky. Maybe we do that.

Try that one for a while, instead of imagine this bullshit that we’ve seen, cause it’s not working, like it’s just, it’s just not. It’s just not. Um, the fan service doesn’t work, it only goes so far. I think what we’ve really seen John in and this isn’t just with this movie, i think this has been with literally every one of these multiverse movies since, uh, spider-man No Way Home is we have seen the first movie that we’ve seen. The failure of relying on nostalgia bait solely to sell a movie. Oh yeah, that’s what the flash has done. It doesn’t work. Doesn’t work anymore. There’s a limit.

1:26:39 – John
You know, and I think that, from my point of view, I think that time is your ally, not your enemy. When I think of, like the Star Wars movies and I remember when they bought it from George Lucas it’s like you’re going to give 45 Kylo Ren movies and you’re going to get 45 standalone movies.

And these are all going to come out in seven years And it’s like wait, what It’s going to be like? a movie every weekend, like yeah. But the thing is when you go back to the original Star Wars movies, they’re all three years apart. You had time to build up that desire, but not just build the desire. You had time to like, maybe fix things, adjusting script wise stuff on the shoot, stuff in editing.

I think that they’re not going to, but I think that the James Gunn universe it should go dark for a while, yeah, like two, three, four, five years, and then releases movies. But they’re not going to do that. No, and everybody, the average fan, is just going to be confused, like wait, i just saw as a Miller as a flash, and I just saw Gal Gadot as a Wonder Woman. But now they’re different people because they’re going to give like six months in between the end of the old DCU and the new DCU And people are just going to be confused and annoyed and they’re just going to stop coming out to the theater like they already are.

1:27:55 – Brian
I mean it all goes down to, to story. I mean I hate to say it, and we’ve said this a bunch of times If, if you’re not putting that at the forefront of what is important, it the rest of it is, it doesn’t matter. you know, um, that people were attracted to the Joker and the Batman because they told very dark, mature, with multiple layers in their storytelling. you know, and it’s also rewatchable, like you can rewatch the Batman and still get enjoyment out of it. There’s not one DCU film that I can think of where I’m like, oh, i’ll go rewatch that. It just can’t. You mean not?

1:28:52 – John
Harley Quinn and the birds of siren or whatever. the That one I didn’t hate as much, but like no, i’m serious.

1:28:57 – Brian
That one didn’t hate as much, but like it’s the same sort of thing, i honestly forgot that one existed. So I I mean that’s, that’s the thing They they’re not going to do this. They’re going to. they will continue to, you know, like, like, uh, uh uh. rat trapped in the maze continue bashing their heads against the wall and then ask why, why is this not working? and then continue to bash their heads against the wall continuously. So I mean that they’re not going to learn their lesson? I really don’t, yeah.

1:29:33 – John
And I think, at the end of the day, um, i don’t want to give them too much credit. So I’m going to say, accidentally, i think Marvel Cinematic Universe is accidental light in a bottle And I think that it’s proven so many times over that it’s nearly impossible to to replicate. I mean, look at maybe the universal monster movie universe that was supposed to come from the mummy, oh yeah, and that was immediately went down the toilet bowl. So, uh, good luck James Gunn, good luck in the DCU. I mean, i would like to see good DC movies. Yeah, i would say I would say, don’t rely on every movie having 37 connections between each one of them as much as Marvel does, maybe just a little, but try to be standalone and maybe to a degree with a few connecting points, and maybe you’ll actually succeed.

1:30:29 – Brian
Yeah, yeah. Um, part of me thinks that the reason why Marvel is lightning in a bottle is because of what came before it. What, what were the superhero movies that came before Iron Man? They were the dark night. They were Batman Begins Very dark, serious movies. And Marvel was the answer for that. Yeah, we’re comfy, they’re they’re. Yeah, it’s goofy, that’s what it is. Um, good talk, really solid talk. I had a feeling we would go an hour and a half.

1:31:08 – John
I’m not surprised.

1:31:09 – Brian
I’m not surprised. I figure we would.

1:31:11 – John
I feel there’s probably another hour that Brian they’re probably, but the people wouldn’t listen.

1:31:16 – Brian
No, they did too. Now, and I mean, for the five people who still listening, listening, uh, thank you. Um, but yeah, I, i, i knew this was going to be a long one. I’m glad we got to talk about it, but, uh, i’ll be fine if we never talk about Ezra Miller and the flash ever again.

1:31:33 – John
Yeah, yeah, i’m okay if we talk about the flash, if they recast, it’s not as from that. Yeah, yeah, i’ll be fine. Never talking about Ezra Miller ever again. Like go to prison, mad goose wizard, yeah.

1:31:45 – Brian
The Bengal ghoul. I literally just found that today.

1:31:50 – John
Yeah, he’s really calling himself the mad goose wizard. Everybody this individual is very emotionally disturbed.

1:31:58 – Brian
They, they need some help and they also need to be in prison, because I hate to tell you this, but if anyone else did what they did, they would not be walking the red carpet at their film premiere. Yeah At all. But with that said, john, where can they find you at? on the internet.

1:32:19 – John
Oh the old people, try Fecta. Twitter, facebook, instagrammable, um. And by the time you’re listening to this, my um Tom Holland, not Spider-Man, but the director of child’s play. My uh interview with him will be out on YouTube. Awesome Take a look at that. He’s got a lot of cool insights on making movies And the good thing is that he’s like 80 something. So he just he has zero fucks left to give, so he just tells it all you know that’s, that’s the great.

1:32:50 – Brian
I hope that by the time I get to eighties if I make it to 80, then I’ll just be like, let me tell you about the time of this, this and this, and I don’t give a shit about this person, this person, just no fucks given. Um, you could find me, uh, on Twitter at Brian Clinton. I also run our psychoshow page. Be sure to like us on Facebook, twitter, instagram, at Psycho show. We are also on the tiki talks for our Gen Z and millennial folk at snima psycho show. I’ve I’ve seen them, uh, literally in the past couple of days, a massive increase in people following us on there, and I not entirely sure why. It’s a hot new thing, baby, i guess so, i guess, so Like we literally are. Like every couple of hours, i look and I see like, oh, three more people are following us, four more people, okay, well, this, this is cool, cause I don’t really think what we’re putting out is anything good, but apparently people like it. Oh, no, brian.

1:33:46 – John
It’s the tower of power. Too sweet to be sour. The man of the hour, oh, prettier than a flower That is us on tick, tock, impressive.

1:33:55 – Brian
Um, for those of you not on tick tock, uh, you can also reach out to us on our discord channel. Remember, we got that uh link, for it is in the description of this episode, uh, and if you want to just send us a good old fashioned email, you can contact us at our website, cinema, psychom, showcom. And, of course, follow us wherever you listen to podcasts, except for Stitcher, which apparently anything. I told you this. Stitcher listeners, apparently your application is going to be, uh, done, i believe, next month, like they’re closing Stitcher, the podcast app, down, yeah, yeah. So, for those of you on Stitcher, jump over to Apple podcasts or Spotify or any other ones, um, because we don’t want to lose you. But, yeah, apparently Stitcher is closing, so hate to tell you that. But for everybody else, follow us wherever you get your podcasts and we will see you next time.

1:34:52 – John
Enjoy all your Michael Keaton, batman and just kidding Fucking. Warner Brothers hates you idiot.

1:35:01 – Brian
Oh nice.